uk.people.disability

Serena Blanchflower wrote:
> * Palindrome wrote, On 12/09/2007 14:35:
>
>>
>> I do appreciate your and Serena's points.
>>
>> This is only to address the specific instance of an able bodied driver
>> and a badge-holding passenger who isn't there at both arrival and
>> departure.
>>
>> There would be some reduction in what could legitimately be done with
>> a badge under such circumstances. But these reductions would be mostly
>> limiting what the able bodied person could do - not the bb holder.
>
> I don't know what you're basing that on. In the example I gave, the
> detours on the way to the badge holder's destination were entirely for
> the benefit of the badge holder, allowing them to do some shopping / go
> to the bank while they were out. What do you think the badge holder and
> their carer should do in those circumstances?

I would suggest that, if the badge holder is capable of being out and
about with a carer for an hour, then the able bodied driver doesn't need
to use a disabled bay. They can be pushed/escorted from a normal parking
space (possibly with the badge holder being dropped off and parked on
the pavement adjacent to the space whilst the able bodied driver
manoeuvures into the parking space).

>
>
>> When picking someone up, there is no need to be in a disabled bay for
>> more than a few minutes. The able bodied driver can park up elsewhere
>> until either the badge holder or immediate carer phones them to say
>> that they are ready and waiting.
>
> What if the badge holder (not the carer) wants to pick something up at
> the shops on the way back to the car?

They inform the driver that they will be a few minutes longer before
being ready to be picked up - so the driver remains in a regular bay for
those few more minutes.

>
>> When dropping someone off, the whole point of the bb scheme is to be
>> able to get close to the destination. Stations, airports, hospitals
>> etc have staff who will look after someone - whilst the able bodied
>> driver moves the vehicle to a normal parking bay and returns - or all
>> the way onto the train/plane. There is very little difference between
>> relying on train staff, on the train, or station staff, in the
>> station. The bb holder is being dropped off, after all - not being
>> continously escorted by the able bodied driver.
>
> That will certainly be the case for some people, in some circumstances
> but it certainly won't always be true.

Hence the "points" suggestion. That will allow for a few exceptional
events each week/month.
>
>> I'm sorry but I think that too many able bodied people use the badge
>> for their own advantage, eg to allow themselves to do some independent
>> shopping, whilst the bb holder does theirs. What they should do is to
>> move the car to a regular parking space, once the needs of the badge
>> holder have been met.
>>
>
> If you are out with a friend or family member (as opposed to a paid or
> volunteer carer), their needs and benefits are likely to be intertwined
> with those of the badge holder. For example, if a friend takes me
> shopping, you seem to think that they shouldn't be allowed to do any
> shopping on their own account while we're out. That simply isn't
> realistic and would significantly reduce the enjoyment of the outing for
> both of us.

No, in that event you will presumably leave the car together and return
to the car, together.

Once the able bodied person's activities are no longer entwined with the
bb holder's activities such that the special bay is no longer needed to
load them into the vehicle, the able bodied person should move the car
to a regular bay.
>
> I do agree that dropping a badge holder off at, for example, a day
> centre, shouldn't licence their driver to go shopping for an hour or two
> but I'm not convinced that that's a major problem anyway. I would have
> thought that the vast majority of badge misuse was where the badge
> holder isn't involved in the journey at all. This could be through
> friends / family "borrowing" the badge or people using stolen / forged
> cards.
>

This is the whole point of the suggested "5 mins". The traffic warden
approaches the driver of a car parking in a disabled bay. If the
badgeholder isn't present, the warden gives the driver 5 mins to produce
them. During that time, the warden does his other work in the immediate
area. After 5 mins, a point is lost, if the badge holder hasn't
appeared. A bit like a courier parking in a loading bay and claiming to
be picking up a parcel - after 5 mins and no parcel, the ticket gets
written.

Similarly, if a vehicle is parked in a disabled bay for more than 5 mins
and the able bodied driver reappears to drive off without the badge
holder, a point is lost.

Too many points lost in a week/month - the badge is disabled for the
remainder of the month.

Obviously, if the badge holder is present at arrival and departure, no
problem.

If the badge holder is present on arrival but is not going to return -
then the able bodied driver has 5 mins to get them to their destination,
or to somewhere where they can be left whilst the car is moved to a
normal bay. The bay isn't needed any more as the badge holder will not
be returning to it.

If the badgeholder isn't present on arrival - then the able bodied
driver has to coordinate the pickup time so that the bay isn't occupied
for more than 5 mins.

These restrictions are needed *because* the able bodied driver misusing
the bb will claim, if seen arriving without the holder - that they are
picking them up - some time in the next n hours. Or if seen starting to
leave without the holder - that they dropped them off n hours ago.

--
Sue