uk.people.disability

On 12 Sep, 20:39, Palindrome wrote:
> Serena Blanchflower wrote:
> > * Palindrome wrote, On 12/09/2007 14:35:
>
> >> I do appreciate your and Serena's points.
>
> >> This is only to address the specific instance of an able bodied driver
> >> and a badge-holding passenger who isn't there at both arrival and
> >> departure.
>
> >> There would be some reduction in what could legitimately be done with
> >> a badge under such circumstances. But these reductions would be mostly
> >> limiting what the able bodied person could do - not the bb holder.
>
> > I don't know what you're basing that on. In the example I gave, the
> > detours on the way to the badge holder's destination were entirely for
> > the benefit of the badge holder, allowing them to do some shopping / go
> > to the bank while they were out. What do you think the badge holder and
> > their carer should do in those circumstances?
>
> I would suggest that, if the badge holder is capable of being out and
> about with a carer for an hour, then the able bodied driver doesn't need
> to use a disabled bay. They can be pushed/escorted from a normal parking
> space (possibly with the badge holder being dropped off and parked on
> the pavement adjacent to the space whilst the able bodied driver
> manoeuvures into the parking space).
>
>
>
> >> When picking someone up, there is no need to be in a disabled bay for
> >> more than a few minutes. The able bodied driver can park up elsewhere
> >> until either the badge holder or immediate carer phones them to say
> >> that they are ready and waiting.
>
> > What if the badge holder (not the carer) wants to pick something up at
> > the shops on the way back to the car?
>
> They inform the driver that they will be a few minutes longer before
> being ready to be picked up - so the driver remains in a regular bay for
> those few more minutes.
>
>
>
> >> When dropping someone off, the whole point of the bb scheme is to be
> >> able to get close to the destination. Stations, airports, hospitals
> >> etc have staff who will look after someone - whilst the able bodied
> >> driver moves the vehicle to a normal parking bay and returns - or all
> >> the way onto the train/plane. There is very little difference between
> >> relying on train staff, on the train, or station staff, in the
> >> station. The bb holder is being dropped off, after all - not being
> >> continously escorted by the able bodied driver.
>
> > That will certainly be the case for some people, in some circumstances
> > but it certainly won't always be true.
>
> Hence the "points" suggestion. That will allow for a few exceptional
> events each week/month.
>
>
>
> >> I'm sorry but I think that too many able bodied people use the badge
> >> for their own advantage, eg to allow themselves to do some independent
> >> shopping, whilst the bb holder does theirs. What they should do is to
> >> move the car to a regular parking space, once the needs of the badge
> >> holder have been met.
>
> > If you are out with a friend or family member (as opposed to a paid or
> > volunteer carer), their needs and benefits are likely to be intertwined
> > with those of the badge holder. For example, if a friend takes me
> > shopping, you seem to think that they shouldn't be allowed to do any
> > shopping on their own account while we're out. That simply isn't
> > realistic and would significantly reduce the enjoyment of the outing for
> > both of us.
>
> No, in that event you will presumably leave the car together and return
> to the car, together.
>
> Once the able bodied person's activities are no longer entwined with the
> bb holder's activities such that the special bay is no longer needed to
> load them into the vehicle, the able bodied person should move the car
> to a regular bay.
>
>
>
> > I do agree that dropping a badge holder off at, for example, a day
> > centre, shouldn't licence their driver to go shopping for an hour or two
> > but I'm not convinced that that's a major problem anyway. I would have
> > thought that the vast majority of badge misuse was where the badge
> > holder isn't involved in the journey at all. This could be through
> > friends / family "borrowing" the badge or people using stolen / forged
> > cards.
>
> This is the whole point of the suggested "5 mins". The traffic warden
> approaches the driver of a car parking in a disabled bay. If the
> badgeholder isn't present, the warden gives the driver 5 mins to produce
> them. During that time, the warden does his other work in the immediate
> area. After 5 mins, a point is lost, if the badge holder hasn't
> appeared. A bit like a courier parking in a loading bay and claiming to
> be picking up a parcel - after 5 mins and no parcel, the ticket gets
> written.
>
> Similarly, if a vehicle is parked in a disabled bay for more than 5 mins
> and the able bodied driver reappears to drive off without the badge
> holder, a point is lost.
>
> Too many points lost in a week/month - the badge is disabled for the
> remainder of the month.
>
> Obviously, if the badge holder is present at arrival and departure, no
> problem.
>
> If the badge holder is present on arrival but is not going to return -
> then the able bodied driver has 5 mins to get them to their destination,
> or to somewhere where they can be left whilst the car is moved to a
> normal bay. The bay isn't needed any more as the badge holder will not
> be returning to it.
>
> If the badgeholder isn't present on arrival - then the able bodied
> driver has to coordinate the pickup time so that the bay isn't occupied
> for more than 5 mins.
>
> These restrictions are needed *because* the able bodied driver misusing
> the bb will claim, if seen arriving without the holder - that they are
> picking them up - some time in the next n hours. Or if seen starting to
> leave without the holder - that they dropped them off n hours ago.
>
> --
> Sue- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ok, simple solution then. Simply make disabled bays only usable for 5
minutes rather than the usual 3 hours (its 2 at our Asda).
Does that meet your requirements personally? Seems to meet your
requirements you are suggesting for others.
As you say, someone can move the vehicle to a normal bay.

Martin <><